“150 NYC Subway Passengers Dead” George W. Obama’s Police State

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“150 Subway Passengers Slain in New York City”

George W. Obama’s  Police State by Andrew Stergiou

Generally there are many reasons why it is not desirable to use military troops in civil societies but to begin with for one it undermines all by use of constitutional law. Forget about those friendly faces on the recruiting posters it is the basic reason troops were not allowed within Rome in the times of great emperors, Republican government and a noble people in what was the Roman Republic, under the Senate and people of Rome (SPQR ).

Visiting New York City a few years back I saw military personnel in the subways such as these below possessing and carrying weapons like the ones in these photos which are semi-long range weapons capable of not merely shooting terrorists and military personnel in enclosed areas but able to slice through terrorists and military personnel and then go through several other civilians that they are supposed to protect.

In the field of professional bodyguard protection it does not take a Hollywood script writer to understand that weapons should protect people (unless you want to kill everyone which relates to everyone in the New York  Subway as I am writing in pertinence to that) and to do so the bullets shoot must hit their targets not penetrate their target and kill the women and children standing behind them.

As such the military, the police, and criminals have had much too much firepower for too long a time. The military has had much too much fire power because rather than pay tribute to the original founding mandates of the United States Peace Corps and the United States Army Special Forces resounded in the hollow ring of “Liberate the Oppressed”. The United States has been dragged by the convoluted demagogy of power to betray itself in the foreign intrigues it is currently involved in that with undermine, debilitate and subvert civilian society until there is no civilian society, which is when the idiots in charge take notice and say why don’t we let civilians handle matters (like in Egypt under Mubarak). Now forget about Egyptian support of Al Fatah (founding Al Fatah) and exploiting it for their own political purposes, the idiots in charge of  the military industrial complex and its ideologues of neoconservatism (US or Egypt) in regard to political muscle should not take away as they have power from civilians and then expect civilians to be able to exercise it which explodes into power vacuums (like Egypt) with the only alternative being the military or creeps (the Muslim Brotherhood).

But besides spit and polish, paid for with your civilian tax dollars, in depriving children health care and proper educations,  the military has no monopoly on brains and intelligence as in fact they are often quite dogmatic, honestly ignorant, and psychologically borderline personalities living two lives one civilian one military, under the false facades of the required military protocols.

Military courtesy is one of the defining features of a professional military force. These courtesies form a strict and sometimes elaborate code of conduct.

“Military courtesy is an extension and a formalization of courtesies practiced in a culture’s everyday life. It is intended to reinforce discipline and the chain of command, defining how soldiers will treat their superiors and vice versa. They are also thought to enhance esprit de corps.

Some military courtesies include proper forms of address (“Sir”, “Ma’am”, “Mister”) and when each should be used; the salute, and the related concept of standing at attention; proper wear of military headgear; obeisance; and the rules for behavior in various ceremonies. Specifics can vary depending on an individual’s rank, location, and circumstances. A military funeral, for example, requires stricter etiquette than a normal day. Courtesies are sometimes relaxed under battlefield conditions; officers may discourage salutes in combat areas to avoid making themselves a target for snipers, and indeed in the United States of America as well as some Commonwealth nations, it is forbidden to salute both indoors, and when in “the field”, a battle situation where snipers are likely to pick out officer targets watching for salutes.[1] (Wikipedia)

As in hello Comrade do you mind if my little sniper friends shoots your dumb ass)” As Military courtesies may also be adopted by paramilitary organizations ” (Wikipedia) though generally the United States military based as it is, on its core of professional officers and professional  soldiers (officially military personnel) have no respect and maintain a contemptuous disdain of  not merely paramilitaries but all civilians.

Soldiers in NYC Subways breaking the law (see soldier on left) holding M16A1, M16A2 assault rifles left to right

To the left is an example of the US military personnel in the New York City Subways systems  as they appeared to me when I visited New York City, possessing modern updated versions of the full stock M-16 automatic rifles (respectively left to right the M16A1, and M16A2 assault rifles.

The M16 is a lightweight, 5.56 mm, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed assault rifle, with a rotating bolt, actuated by direct impingement gas operation. The rifle is made of steel, 7075 aluminum alloy, composite plastics and polymer materials.

The U.S. Air Force’s rifle, the M16, and the United States Marine Corps and Army rifle, the M16E1, were the first versions of the M16 rifle fielded. Soon, the U.S. Army standardized the M16E1 as the M16A1 rifle, an M16 with a forward assist feature requested by the Army. All of the early versions were chambered to fire the M193/M196 cartridge in the semi-automatic and the automatic firing modes. (Wikipedia). Thought there are variations to the M16 assault rifle its specifications are to similar to those specified for the M16A2 below which is revealing that it is not the preferred weapon for heavily populated areas where civilian casualties are a concern.



“Urban warfare is combat conducted in urban areas such as towns and cities. Urban combat is very different from combat in the open at both the operational and tactical level. Complicating factors in urban warfare include the presence of civilians and the complexity of the urban terrain.”

A private security (gangster) riding in the new Russia




“Some civilians may be difficult to distinguish from combatants such as armed militias and gangs, and particularly individuals who are simply trying to protect their homes from attackers.

Tactics are complicated by a three-dimensional environment, limited fields of view and fire because of buildings, enhanced concealment and cover for defenders, below ground infrastructure, and the ease of placement of booby traps and snipers.” (Wikipedia)

Clearly the military has show itself inept off the battle field in its protecting of its own bases (see Fort Hood, The Fort Hood shooting was a mass shooting that took place on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas. In the course of the shooting, a single gunman killed 14 people and wounded 29 others ( as a recent incident in Norway)

” The sole suspect is Nidal Malik Hasan, a U.S. Army major serving as a psychiatrist. He was shot and taken into custody by Department of the Army Civilian Police officers,[2] and is now paralyzed from the chest down.[3] Hasan has been charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder under the Uniform Code of Military Justice; he may face additional charges at court-martial. If he is convicted, there is a chance he could be given the death penalty.[4][5]” (wikipedia)

Generally descriptively protecting urban areas is not a military operations it is more akin to being a public body guard rather than a cop or GI Joe, John  Wayne and Audie Murphy. As generally the hyperventilating hot air American Demagogues (oops I mean politicians) have in their almost purely rhetorical posturing has used the military and created a mass hysteria so as to retain control (as Mubarak and the National Democratic Party of Egypt did in Egypt, but which they see there was not constructive (though it is easy as they control the mass media as corporate America does here anbd backfires also). People are tired in being unnecessarily burdened by senseless security procedures that has nothing to do with security but rather like the “Emperor’s New Clothes” has more to do about what people think about security, politicians and public safety, and what profits they can reap by playing that card in the sale of “protection services” like any other gangster in the extortion racket as if there were terrorists American politicians would invent them to turn a buck profitteering from “The War on Terror”

But the American public is mostly alternatively cynic and or naive, if not naive in a vicious circle that American politics exists

In atypical use of a New York City sense of humor , The New York Post said

“Stand clear of the sub-machine guns.”

In which the conservative paper stated  what happened in ” an unusual move, a heavily armed NYPD security battalion with enough firepower to wipe out Downtown Brooklyn descended onto the city’s subway trains yesterday in response to suicide bombings in Russia that killed dozens of passengers in Moscow’s subway. Bleary-eyed New Yorkers began their work weeks with a morning rush hour that featured city cops in full military gear, including helmets, goggles, body armor, sidearms and M16 assault rifles. The underground arsenal startled sleepy straphangers, many of whom wondered whether the extra security was overkill.” (New York Post March 30, 2010)

The New York Daily News described March 2011 “Heavily-armed cops and soldiers patrolled the city’s subway system during an anti-terror drill Wednesday morning, reassuring commuters rattled by the Moscow suicide attacks. The drill – which was scheduled before this week’s bombings in the Russian rail system – deployed officers from the NYPD, MTA, Amtrak, Army National Guard and other agencies throughout the city’s transit hubs.”

But that fails to mention how there is an excessive  military presence in all mass transit systems in the United States, that causes conservative newspaper to ask “Is it a police state?”, Do you think it is a police state?”, “Does it look like a police state?”, and ordinary citizens reason to question can I speak freely? Can I speak in front of these cops? in front of these soldiers? How many police and soldiers are there that I can not recognize?

When these “cops and soldiers” in “protecting America from terrorism become the terrorists, as in like when am I going to be shot for what I say? As in if they shoot terrorists how many working stiffs who pay taxes will they kill because “cops and soldiers” are following orders and doing their jobs?

Each clip puts another nail in the coffin of the American Republic.

So the military is not the only ones  in this game as the local assholes (I mean politicians are in the act) trying to make themselves look good.and who can not be trusted as in for that same reason they can not be trusted. In what makes me feel sick not it the higher philosophical political sense but in the basic sense of being a citizen, a member of society,  a human being, on planet earth,  an American who has been betrayed by the cynicism, the callous in difference and tactics or a bunch of jerks (I mean public officials) whop are more afraid of losing their jobs than standing for what ius right correct and proper rather than what is not.~end~

P.S. That eye catching headline which I stretched out of the fact that every time you mix crowds of people and weapons together eventually people will die regardless whether you hope they will not, maybe the weapon will be stolen out of the hands of one of those well armed people. As if believe in people and take the corporate media as serious maybe some drug crazed  black crack head will steal it, or  some postal white man, or some motorcycle dude. In all honestly perhaps the headline should be ” ‘ 150 NYC Subway Passengers Dead’  George W. Obama’s Police State’ if the United States does not learn from its mistakes because:

for one can envision the dead,
see nothing but the dead, living which is dead,
within cities of the dead,
nothing but the dead, in cities of dead,
where the vultures rule,
for the earth is in the hands of the wicked,
those who are dead without dying,
in dead truths, dead gods,
in empty idols, of graven images,
empty words, empty phrases,
of Hebrew and Greek,
of white and black,
of god and Satan,

of Yangtze and Ohio,

animal and man, male and female,
as I prepare for my death, none hears me,
the sick and informed are unattended,
kind words are not spoken,
unmeaningful in being empty, contrite and meaningless,
pray thee there is but fifty good men to be found,
when there is not ten, but one,
the adversary of all,
that which is the essence of which is good,
true, and living.

The fact of the matter is that the United States has been all too dependent on the military industrial complex that they can not have their guns and butter any more, as the Chinese government through spokesmen and scholars  made their views clear here is an end game scenario either the US learn to behave responsibly or the Chinese and trading partners will force the US to be responsible as part of economic warfare because military warfare is not the only type of warfare, and no military power survives without an industrial economic base which is mad unprofitable

when labor is not respected nor paid for,
when silver which is dross,
worshiped over virtue,
pride is the only accomplishment,
wise men speak of to only be forgotten.

Bin Laden could have been also Chinese funded (besides US funded) from his days as part of the Afghanistan Mujaheddin and he provoked the US into exposing itself economically, as in that its military and political views were well know and it could be pushed to expose its queen or prize piece, at precisely the moment needed in history so that neither did the USSR win the Cold War, Nor the USA, but the PRC standing ready on the sidelines building its military resources, expanding worldwide into heavy industry including in the USA hiring iron workers to build bridges, in Africa selling products, goods, and service worldwide while Ame4ricqa as the USA, withdraws in that it is squandered its blessings.




“Depending on the laws in a bodyguard’s jurisdiction and on which type of agency or security service they are in, bodyguards may be unarmed, armed with a less-lethal weapon such as a baton, pepper spray, or Taser, or with a lethal weapon such as a handgun, or, in the case of a government bodyguard for a Secret Service-type agency, a machine pistol.[3] Some bodyguards such as those protecting high ranking government officials or those operating in high risk environments such as war zones may carry sub-machine guns or assault rifles”

“In addition to these weapons, a bodyguard team may also have more specialist weapons to aid them in maintaining the safety of their principal, such as sniper rifles and anti-material rifles (for anti-sniper protection) or shotguns (either loaded with buckshot as an anti-personnel weapon or with solid slugs as an anti-vehicle weapon).”

“The weapons used by the US Secret Service Counter Assault Team (CAT) include SIG Sauer P229 pistols; Uzi submachine guns (sometimes in an attaché case); H&K MP5K submachine guns (sometimes in an attaché case); Colt AR-15 assault rifles; Remington Model 700 bolt-action sniper rifles (with scope); 7.62mm Vaime SSR Mk 2 suppressed bolt-action sniper rifles; McMillan Model 87R bolt-action sniper rifles; Remington Model 870P pump-action shotguns; and the FN P90 personal defense weapon.”

“Bodyguards that protect high-risk principals may wear body armor such as kevlar or ceramic vests. The bodyguards may also have other ballistic shields, such as kevlar-reinforced briefcases or clipboards which, while appearing innocuous, can be used to protect the principal. The principal may also wear body armor in high-risk situations.”


The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits members of the Army from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain “law and order” on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.

The statute prohibits Army and Air Force personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Navy and Marine Corps are prohibited by a Department of Defense directive, not by the Act itself.[1][2] The Coast Guard, under the Department of Homeland Security, is exempt from the Act.


The Act was a response to, and subsequent prohibition of, the military occupation by U.S. Army troops of the former Confederate States during the ten years of Reconstruction (1867–1877) following the American Civil War (1861–1865). The U.S. withdrew Federal troops from Southern states as a result of a compromise in one of the most disputed national elections in American history, the 1876 U.S. presidential election. Samuel J. Tilden of New York, the Democratic candidate, defeated Republican candidate Rutherford B. Hayes of Ohio in the popular vote. Tilden garnered 184 electoral votes to Hayes’ 165; 20 disputed electoral votes remained uncounted. After a bitter fight, Congress struck a deal resolving the dispute and awarding the presidency to Hayes.

In return for Southern acquiescence regarding Hayes, Republicans agreed to support the withdrawal of federal troops from the former Confederate states, ending Reconstruction. Known as the Compromise of 1877, this deal of political expediency removed federal protection for Southern ex-slaves.[3] The U.S. Constitution places primary responsibility for the holding of elections in the hands of the individual states. The maintenance of peace, conduct of orderly elections, and prosecution of unlawful actions are all state responsibilities, pursuant to the states’ primary job of exercising police power and maintaining law and order.

During the local, state, and federal elections of 1874 and 1876 in the former Confederate states, all levels of government chose not to exercise their police powers to maintain law and order.[citation needed] Many acts of violence, and a suppression of the vote of some political and racial groups, resulted in the election of state legislators and U.S. congressmen who halted and reversed political reform in the American South.[3]

When the U.S. Representatives and Senators from the former Confederate states reached Washington, they set as a priority the creation of a statute prohibiting any future President or Congress from directing, by military order or federal legislation, the imposition of federal troops in any U.S. state.

The original Posse Comitatus Act referred essentially to the United States Army. The Air Force was added in 1956 and the Navy and the Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. The United States Coast Guard, when acting in its peacetime capacity, is not included in the Act. (The U.S. Coast Guard was originally part of the Treasury Department, was later part of the Department of Transportation, and is now within the Department of Homeland Security.) However, if, in wartime, a portion of the Coast Guard were subsumed within the Department of the Navy, as it was during World War II, that portion would lose its federal police power authority and responsibility over the federal law-enforcement duties of its civilian mission. This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement.[4]


The original provision was enacted as Section 15 of chapter 263, of the Acts of the 2nd session of the 45th Congress.

Sec. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress ; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section and any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment[5]

The text of the relevant legislation is as follows:

18 U.S.C. § 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

Also notable is the following provision within Title 10 of the United States Code (which concerns generally the organization and regulation of the armed forces and Department of Defense):

10 U.S.C. § 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel

The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

Recent legislative events

On September 26, 2006, President Bush urged Congress to consider revising federal laws so that U.S. armed forces could restore public order and enforce laws in the aftermath of a natural disaster, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

These changes were included in the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (H.R. 5122 ), which was signed into law on October 17, 2006.[6]

Section 1076 is titled “Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies.” It provided that:

The President may employ the armed forces… to… restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition… the President determines that… domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order… or [to] suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such… a condition… so hinders the execution of the laws… that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law… or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.[7]

In 2008, these changes were repealed in their entirety, reverting to the previous wording of the Insurrection Act.[8]

Exclusions and limitations

There are a number of situations in which the Act does not apply. These include:

National Guard units and State Defense Forces while under the authority of the governor of a state;

Troops used under the order of the President of the United States pursuant to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots.

Under 18 U.S.C. § 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threats involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a nuclear or radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect U.S. military preparedness.

Support roles under the Joint Special Operations Command

Exclusion applicable to U.S. Coast Guard

See the Law Enforcement Detachments and Missions of the United States Coast Guard for more information on U.S. Coast Guard law enforcement activities

Although it is a military force,[9] the U.S. Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act. The Coast Guard enforces U.S. laws, even when operating as a service for the U.S. Navy.

In December 1981, additional laws were enacted clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies and the Coast Guard, especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, and aircraft, as well as intelligence support, technological aid, and surveillance) while generally prohibiting direct participation of Department of Defense personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, a U.S. Navy vessel may be used to track, follow, and stop a vessel suspected of drug smuggling, but Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETs) aboard the Navy vessel would perform the actual boarding and, if needed, arrest the crew.[10]

Homeland security

On October 1, 2008, the US Army announced that the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team (BCT) will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command (NORTHCOM), as an on-call federal response force for natural or man-made emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

This marks the first time an active U.S. Army unit will be given a dedicated assignment to NORTHCOM, where it is stated they may be “called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive (CBRNE) attack.” These soldiers will also learn how to use non-lethal weapons designed to “subdue unruly or dangerous individuals” without killing them, and also includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and beanbag bullets.[11] However, the “non-lethal crowd control package […] is intended for use on deployments to the war zone, not in the U.S. […]”.[11]

The US military will have around 20,000 uniformed personnel in this role in the United States by 2011, specifically trained and equipped to assist state and local government, respond to major disasters, terrorist attack, other major public emergencies.[12] This shift in strategy is a result of recommendations by Congress and outside experts.[12] This response capability is not new, but now accompanies a permanent assignment of forces to NORTHCOM.

This formalizes a role for the use of federal troops within the United States during major public emergencies and disasters, as was the case in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005.[11] This has raised concern about the relationship between Posse Comitatus and the use of the military in domestic disaster support and homeland defense roles.[13] However, federal military forces have a long history of domestic roles, including the occupation of sovereign Southern states during Reconstruction and the confiscation of private firearms in the Katrina aftermath.[14] The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the use of federal military forces to “execute the laws”; however, there is disagreement over whether this language may apply to troops used in an advisory, support, disaster response, or other homeland defense role, as opposed to conventional law enforcement.[3]

On December 10, 2008, the California Highway Patrol announced its officers, along with San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department deputies and US Marine Corps Military Police, would jointly staff some sobriety and drivers license checkpoints.[15] However, the Marines at the checkpoints are not arresting individuals or enforcing any laws, which would be a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.[16] A spokesperson said that the Marines were present to observe the checkpoint to learn how to conduct checkpoints on base, to help combat the problem of Marines driving under the influence. The Marines at a recent checkpoint learned techniques to conduct sobriety checkpoints and field sobriety tests.[16]

On March 10, 2009, active duty Army military police troops from Fort Rucker were deployed to Samson, Alabama in response to a murder spree. Samson officials confirmed that the soldiers assisted in traffic control and securing the crime scene. The governor of Alabama did not request military assistance nor did President Obama authorize their deployment. Subsequent investigation found that the Posse Comitatus Act was violated and several military members received “administrative actions.”[17][18]

Latin etymology

Posse Comitatus (Latin): Power of the county. The whole force of the county: that is, all the male members of a county over fifteen, who may be summoned by a sheriff to assist in preventing a riot, the rescue of prisoners, or other unlawful disorders.[19]

Author: Andrew Stergiou

First online publisher of a literary art journal in the world.

One Comment

  1. If you don't get the point: From a professional point of view these are not the weapons to be carried in subways, weapons which would be more like James Bond's Walther PPK 7.65mm

    During World War II they were issued to the German military and police, the Schutzstaffel, the Luftwaffe, and Nazi Party officials; Adolf Hitler shot and killed himself with his PPK (a 7.65mm/.32 ACP) in the Führerbunker in Berlin.

    Moreover, the Walther PPK (also a 7.65mm/.32 ACP) pistol is famous as fictional secret agent James Bond's signature gun in many of the films and novels. Ian Fleming's choice of the Walther PPK directly influenced its popularity and its notoriety.

    The most common variant is the Walther PPK, the Polizeipistole Kriminalmodell (Police Pistol Detective Model), indicating it was more concealable than the original PP and hence better suited to plainclothes or undercover work. Sometimes, the name Polizeipistole Kurz (Short Police Pistol) is used, however the accuracy of that interpretation is unclear. The PPK is a smaller version of the PP (Polizeipistole) with a shorter grip and barrel and reduced magazine capacity.

    The PP and the PPK were among the world's first successful double action semi-automatic pistols that were widely copied, but still made by Walther. The design inspired other pistols, among them the Soviet Makarov, the Hungarian FEG PA-63, the Argentinian Bersa Thunder 380, the Spanish Astra Constable, and the Czech CZ50. Although it was an excellent semi-automatic pistol, it had competitors in its time. The Mauser HSc pistol and the Sauer 38H pistol (a.k.a. model "H"), were successful in their own rights. Sauer pistol production ended at war's end, but the refined SIG P230 and the P232 owe much to the Sauer 38H.

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